Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.

[Violent Demise]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

Uh they were all title holders. Not world champions. Far from it. Just look how they got there titles. Charles Brewer won his vacant IBF title by beating non-champion Gary Ballard (). Robin Reid crushed The Italian Stallion Vincenzo Nardiello to become WBC champ (). Richie Woodhall had to go 12 against the 10 loss having ancient Thulani Malinga to get his WBC title (). Who took it from Robin Ried. () Byron Mitchell I do give credit to. He beat the underrated Frankie Liles to become champion. But by the time he fought Calzaghe he was coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and had gone life and death against Manny Siaca and Julio Cesar Green. I don't even acknowledge the WBO. There you go. Keep calling Brewer, Reid and Woodhall former world champions if you want. Anything to make Calzaghe look better.

[ssss]

That's not the debate Ice

You wanna take up the challenge?

Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche

Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level

But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........

As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........

Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.

The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).

So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?

I never said they compare with Joe Calzaghe's opposition what i said is that Kelly Pavlik's wins over Jermain Taylor is probably better than any single win on Joe Calzaghe's resume.........

Its unfair to compare them at the moment because Kelly Pavlik is a new comer and has only recently won world title where as Joe Calzaghe has been champion for 11 years its just a silly comparison.......

But i will bet you this that when Kelly Pavlik finishes his career i think he will have better overall wins than Joe Calzaghe but we will have to wait and see if Kelly Pavlik can handle the big boys at the higher weight classes...........

[ElTerribleMorales]

No just one and that was a overhyped Jeff Lacy.
Didnt Manfredo take him the distance. Wow Manfredo another one of Calzaghe
worthy opponets.

Lacy was more feared than Pavlik before the Calzaghe fight.

You talk shit maybe i should go on about Pavlik getting dropped heavily by a Welterweight

Pavlik and McCart. Funny .So you are saying that Bronco McKart hits harder than Edision Miranda. That was a slip dude.I seen the whole fight . All seven rounds of it. Your favorite fighter is a complete bitch inside the ring and out.His fans boo our nations anthem.If it was not for the USA you would not have a country. You would be speaking german right now. Show some class.Calzaghe hits like a 85 pound Korean gymnast. Calzaghe has made a career out of fighting crappy european fighters. Omar Shieka , that douche that does porn .....whats his name. Robin whatever. He fought one great who is quallified for social security and gets hurt and floored by him and your ready to lick his toes for it. That was the ugliest win ever. My favorite boxer does not try to anally rape a old man in the ring. He doesnt hit like a girl. And is all around tough. Not a welsh bullet dodger. Why didnt he call out Hopkins, Toney , Tarver , and Jones back in the day. He knew he would lose.

ummmm racist much dude?!? guess the English can fire back, well if we weren't assholes in the first place, the pilgrims wouldn't of gone to what is now known as the US, of course after slaughtering the indians that is , you're an ass dude, world politics and race have nothing to with boxing, Calzaghe, although not one of my fav fighters, has shown time and time again he's legit, so put a cork in it and shut it, stop swinging on Pavliks nut sack cause i have a feeling his undefeated streak wont last long, he's more 1 dimensional than what most say Trinidad was, soon enough (maybe even against B-Hop) he's gonna lose, and it won't make him any less of a fighter

[C-Lo]

Sorry I haven't replied in a while. I was at an open gym.

I'm totally agreeing with ssss. To compare Calzaghe and Pavlik's records as a whole would be somewhat foolish to do right now considering Pavlik's career is starting to take off while Calzaghe is towards the end. In terms of their best wins, I think Pavlik has the edge. Taylor and Miranda are much better wins than Bernard Hopkins (at this stage) and Kessler. If Pavlik beats Hopkins as well what would that do to the argument? Hopkins was easier to beat because he already lost to Calzaghe? I don't think so. I am just waiting to see what the reasoning will be if Pavlik wins. Joe is making big moves now, but Pavlik is making big moves as well MUCH EARLIER in his career.

This is my opinion and I respect the ones of those who back Calzaghe. But I just don't see much difference with their level of opponents. Just because someone holds a belt doesn't mean all that much. People know who the "real" champions are...

[CFH]

Sorry I haven't replied in a while. I was at an open gym.

I'm totally agreeing with ssss. To compare Calzaghe and Pavlik's records as a whole would be somewhat foolish to do right now considering Pavlik's career is starting to take off while Calzaghe is towards the end. In terms of their best wins, I think Pavlik has the edge. Taylor and Miranda are much better wins than Bernard Hopkins (at this stage) and Kessler. If Pavlik beats Hopkins as well what would that do to the argument? Hopkins was easier to beat because he already lost to Calzaghe? I don't think so. I am just waiting to see what the reasoning will be if Pavlik wins. Joe is making big moves now, but Pavlik is making big moves as well MUCH EARLIER in his career.

This is my opinion and I respect the ones of those who back Calzaghe. But I just don't see much difference with their level of opponents. Just because someone holds a belt doesn't mean all that much. People know who the "real" champions are...

I agree with this for the most part. The only place I disagree is that I think Kessler is a much better scalp to have than Miranda. Taylor and Hopkins are pretty much a wash as far as I'm concerned. Their fights in no way proved who the better man was.

[Fenster]

Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level

But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........

As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........

Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.

The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).

So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?

I never said they compare with Joe Calzaghe's opposition what i said is that Kelly Pavlik's wins over Jermain Taylor is probably better than any single win on Joe Calzaghe's resume.........

Its unfair to compare them at the moment because Kelly Pavlik is a new comer and has only recently won world title where as Joe Calzaghe has been champion for 11 years its just a silly comparison.......

But i will bet you this that when Kelly Pavlik finishes his career i think he will have better overall wins than Joe Calzaghe but we will have to wait and see if Kelly Pavlik can handle the big boys at the higher weight classes...........

That was the "debate" though. You must have not understood, not to worry

I agree it's unfair/silly to compare them at this stage.

Pavlik will QUICKLY become a chump once he's been KO'd a few times.. which in all honesty, is far more likely than him becoming a long reigning champ - like Calzaghe

[Markusdarkus]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

How on earth were Reid and Mitchel past their best?

[Markusdarkus]

Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level

But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........

As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........

Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.

The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).

So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?

I never said they compare with Joe Calzaghe's opposition what i said is that Kelly Pavlik's wins over Jermain Taylor is probably better than any single win on Joe Calzaghe's resume.........

Its unfair to compare them at the moment because Kelly Pavlik is a new comer and has only recently won world title where as Joe Calzaghe has been champion for 11 years its just a silly comparison.......

But i will bet you this that when Kelly Pavlik finishes his career i think he will have better overall wins than Joe Calzaghe but we will have to wait and see if Kelly Pavlik can handle the big boys at the higher weight classes...........

Taylor could have dropped decisions against Spinks and Ouma not forgetting the gift draw with Wright. Hopkins was made for Taylor he finally met a fighter even more negative and had to force the fight Hopkins is purely a backfoot fighter.

Style wise Taylor had his number. And im not sure getting punched all over the ring in the first fight and a razor thin dec in the rematch are as good as Calzaghes best wins.

[Markusdarkus]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

The difference to me is that Calzaghe's been around a lot longer. Joe had chances to fight much better fighters in the 90's even early 2000s but he didn't. I know there may have been a case of Calzaghe wasn't a big name yet so why would Hopkins and Jones fight him. Still, he could've started something but it didn't happen. He's now fighting these guys after their time in the spotlight which is hard to give him full credit for.

Pavlik on the other hand is still 25, 26 years old and he's already trying to fight the best out there. He's not wasting any time and is accomodating his opponent's desired weight just to make the fight and not ducking anyone. This is why he's grabbing a lot of people's respect.

It would a great fight between the two of them. ABSOLUTELY a pick 'em! As someone said before, Pavlik has the tools to stop and hurt Joe but will Joe let him?

PLUS! Like I said before, Roy Jones isn't exactly a tune-up and Calzaghe WILL have his hands full.

"between Pavlik and Calzaghe`s list of opponents, I honestly dont see much of a difference"

You got mad rep for that! will people now see that Pavliks fans are up their with Mayweathers, Jones and Pacquaios for sheer loonacy?

[Fenster]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

Uh they were all title holders. Not world champions. Far from it. Just look how they got there titles. Charles Brewer won his vacant IBF title by beating non-champion Gary Ballard (). Robin Reid crushed The Italian Stallion Vincenzo Nardiello to become WBC champ (). Richie Woodhall had to go 12 against the 10 loss having ancient Thulani Malinga to get his WBC title (). Who took it from Robin Ried. () Byron Mitchell I do give credit to. He beat the underrated Frankie Liles to become champion. But by the time he fought Calzaghe he was coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and had gone life and death against Manny Siaca and Julio Cesar Green. I don't even acknowledge the WBO. There you go. Keep calling Brewer, Reid and Woodhall former world champions if you want. Anything to make Calzaghe look better.

You clearly do not understand why I used quotation marks for the word - WORLD.

These guys were "world" (the quotation marks indicate i'm using the word ironically ) champion of those alphabet organisations. Fact.

Now, whether or not you believe them to be any good (obviously not), they all achieved a level of success that raises them ABOVE journeyman standard, right?

Which means the bulk of Calzaghe's opposition is far superior to Pavliks.

[ssss]

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

How on earth were Reid and Mitchel past their best?

I think you misunderstood what i meant i didn't say they were past there prime but experts at that time did consider both fighters to be on the downslide of there career......

Because Robin Reid had looked rubbish losing to a 42 years old Thulani Malinga yes Robin Reid did go on to have some decent performances after the Joe Calzaghe fight but at the time he fought Joe Calzaghe he was considered on the downslide of his career and Byron Mitchell was also coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and the fact that he didn't fight again for another 4 years when he lost by TKO in an 8 round bout to Richard Hall proves my point.

[ssss]

The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).

So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?

I never said they compare with Joe Calzaghe's opposition what i said is that Kelly Pavlik's wins over Jermain Taylor is probably better than any single win on Joe Calzaghe's resume.........

Its unfair to compare them at the moment because Kelly Pavlik is a new comer and has only recently won world title where as Joe Calzaghe has been champion for 11 years its just a silly comparison.......

But i will bet you this that when Kelly Pavlik finishes his career i think he will have better overall wins than Joe Calzaghe but we will have to wait and see if Kelly Pavlik can handle the big boys at the higher weight classes...........

Taylor could have dropped decisions against Spinks and Ouma not forgetting the gift draw with Wright. Hopkins was made for Taylor he finally met a fighter even more negative and had to force the fight Hopkins is purely a backfoot fighter.

Style wise Taylor had his number. And im not sure getting punched all over the ring in the first fight and a razor thin dec in the rematch are as good as Calzaghes best wins.

Could have dropped a decision to Kassim Ouma you are kidding right ? Jermain Taylor didn't look impressive but he clearly won the fight end of and no way was that fight controversial.........

All Cory Spinks did was run all night and he makes pretty much everyone look bad and as for Winky Wright is there any shame in having a draw against Winky Wright ?

Considering Bernard Hopkins looked even worse against a flabby Winky Wright and had to grab and cheat his way to a controversial decision over a flabby Winky Wright who was moving up 2 weight classes.

[Markusdarkus]

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

How on earth were Reid and Mitchel past their best?

I think you misunderstood what i meant i didn't say they were past there prime but experts at that time did consider both fighters to be on the downslide of there career......

Because Robin Reid had looked rubbish losing to a 42 years old Thulani Malinga yes Robin Reid did go on to have some decent performances after the Joe Calzaghe fight but at the time he fought Joe Calzaghe he was considered on the downslide of his career and Byron Mitchell was also coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and the fact that he didn't fight again for another 4 years when he lost by TKO in an 8 round bout to Richard Hall proves my point.

Mitchel was coming off his career best display by beating Sven Ottke.

[Violent Demise]

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

Uh they were all title holders. Not world champions. Far from it. Just look how they got there titles. Charles Brewer won his vacant IBF title by beating non-champion Gary Ballard (). Robin Reid crushed The Italian Stallion Vincenzo Nardiello to become WBC champ (). Richie Woodhall had to go 12 against the 10 loss having ancient Thulani Malinga to get his WBC title (). Who took it from Robin Ried. () Byron Mitchell I do give credit to. He beat the underrated Frankie Liles to become champion. But by the time he fought Calzaghe he was coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and had gone life and death against Manny Siaca and Julio Cesar Green. I don't even acknowledge the WBO. There you go. Keep calling Brewer, Reid and Woodhall former world champions if you want. Anything to make Calzaghe look better.

You clearly do not understand why I used quotation marks for the word - WORLD.

These guys were "world" (the quotation marks indicate i'm using the word ironically ) champion of those alphabet organisations. Fact.

Now, whether or not you believe them to be any good (obviously not), they all achieved a level of success that raises them ABOVE journeyman standard, right?

Which means the bulk of Calzaghe's opposition is far superior to Pavliks.

Mitchell and maybe, maybe Reid yeah. But Brewer and Woodhall I consider journeymen.

[Markusdarkus]

Uh they were all title holders. Not world champions. Far from it. Just look how they got there titles. Charles Brewer won his vacant IBF title by beating non-champion Gary Ballard (). Robin Reid crushed The Italian Stallion Vincenzo Nardiello to become WBC champ (). Richie Woodhall had to go 12 against the 10 loss having ancient Thulani Malinga to get his WBC title (). Who took it from Robin Ried. () Byron Mitchell I do give credit to. He beat the underrated Frankie Liles to become champion. But by the time he fought Calzaghe he was coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and had gone life and death against Manny Siaca and Julio Cesar Green. I don't even acknowledge the WBO. There you go. Keep calling Brewer, Reid and Woodhall former world champions if you want. Anything to make Calzaghe look better.

You clearly do not understand why I used quotation marks for the word - WORLD.

These guys were "world" (the quotation marks indicate i'm using the word ironically ) champion of those alphabet organisations. Fact.

Now, whether or not you believe them to be any good (obviously not), they all achieved a level of success that raises them ABOVE journeyman standard, right?

Which means the bulk of Calzaghe's opposition is far superior to Pavliks.

Mitchell and maybe, maybe Reid yeah. But Brewer and Woodhall I consider journeymen.

Brewer and Woodhall journeymen?

Yer ok.