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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caleoh12
Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.
Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.
That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.
Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...
Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ
Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.
Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.
Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche ;D
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caleoh12
Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.
Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.
That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.
Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...
Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ
Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.
Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.
Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche ;D
Good point. Calzaghe's fought over a dozen Zertuche type oppoenents plus the guys you mentioned before going on to Lacy-Kessler-Hopkins. All the guys you mentoined plus these 3 (that's 8 ) achieved a hell of a lot more in their careers than Miranda, that leaves just Taylor as a class opponent, so no, Pavlik hasn't got the same resume as Joe, as of now anyway.
by the way to the Pavlik fans, not dissing him, just defending Joe, Kelly's a very good fighter who may prove to be a great one day if he keeps progressing, his fights are also great to watch. If they fought now I'd actually favour Pavlik slightly, but only because Joe has been slipping gradually for a good few years but it's only really catching up with him now, +IMO he's gonna struggle with Jones.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Deanrw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Calzaghe has fought bums Jones has fought bums.
Do you agree?
Now when a fighter gets knocked down by a bum how should i phrase it?
Listen i would never call an elite fighter a bum or a can and i have never slagged Pavlik off i put what i think on the table wanting a good debate it hypes fights makes them more enjoyable. Then you get this tool and that Demise just neg repping and slagging off every comment they dont agree with.
Argue, state your case dont just throw out aimless hate.
If i posted "Calzaghe is crap feather fisted bum basher" id get 10,00k good rep but if i put "I think Calzaghe will whoop Pavlik" you get a ton of neg rep.
I don't call any fighter a bum. I will say that they have all faced some weak opposition.
Would you call Gary Lockett a bum? I mean he went farther in his career than most fighters dream of. Was he strong opposition for Pavlik? No he wasn't. The guy is no bum though. It is a very bad term to use.
Yes Cal gets called Calslappy and Pavlik gets called Slow and One Dimensional. That is normal boxing fan behavior. Calling either a bum though is simply wrong IMO and insulting to not only the fighters, but the fans and the sport.
The term bum has been around 4eva fighters, pundits and fans use it.
Lockett is a good journeyman. And i never called Pavlik a bum.
Calzaghe gets called Calslappy, Calfaggy you name it yet a word said against Pavlik draws a huge response. Not all but some of his fans are real tools.
You get that with power punchers through "fringe" fans who all of a sudden stand up and follow the guy. Lacy and Miranda also had.. shall we say a "cult" following same with Pavlik people ignore the flaws as he has power and all of a sudden any fighter within 2 weight classes no matter how great are bums and would get knocked out.
I actually wrote an article on power punchers and their fans and the response was that regular fight fans in turn hated the fighter through the actions of his fans. But it turned out to be a good thing as the banter made the hype and viewing figures soar.
Well I distinctly remember Red K 'ing you for saying it back when you first joined here. I hardly ever give Red K to anyone, so I tend to remember when I do.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caleoh12
Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.
Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.
That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.
Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...
Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ
Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.
Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.
Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche ;D
All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caleoh12
Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.
Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.
That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.
Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...
Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ
Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.
Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.
Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche ;D
All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.
That's not the debate Ice ;)
You wanna take up the challenge?
Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche ;)
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.
Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...
Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ
Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.
Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.
Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche ;D
All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.
That's not the debate Ice ;)
You wanna take up the challenge?
Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche ;)
Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level........
But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........
As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........
Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caleoh12
Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.
Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.
That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.
Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...
Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ
Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.
Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.
Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche ;D
All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, if JC and Pavlik fight, if Pavlik wins will you be saying that Calzaghe was on the downslide?? especially considering those guys were a good few years younger than what Joe would be should he fight Kelly in early 2009. Also considering Kelly's next opponent and that Taylor could be argued to have slipped (rested on his laurels) after winning the title, what does that leave Kelly with??
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bomp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.
Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...
Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ
Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.
Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.
Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche ;D
All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, if JC and Pavlik fight, if Pavlik wins will you be saying that Calzaghe was on the downslide?? especially considering those guys were a good few years younger than what Joe would be should he fight Kelly in early 2009. Also considering Kelly's next opponent and that Taylor could be argued to have slipped (rested on his laurels) after winning the title, what does that leave Kelly with??
If Pavlik Wins Will You Be Saying That Calzaghe Was On The Downslide
Good question i would say Joe Calzaghe is for certain at the point where he is starting to slip somewhat but its hard to tell because he had great performance against Mikkel Kessler then had bad showing against Bernard Hopkins but Bernard Hopkins makes everyone look bad.........
But i would say Kelly Pavlik didn't beat a prime Joe Calzaghe if he did indeed win.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
southakron314
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
southakron314
Pavlik and McCart. Funny .So you are saying that Bronco McKart hits harder than Edision Miranda. That was a slip dude.I seen the whole fight . All seven rounds of it. Your favorite fighter is a complete bitch inside the ring and out.His fans boo our nations anthem.If it was not for the USA you would not have a country. You would be speaking german right now. Show some class.Calzaghe hits like a 85 pound Korean gymnast. Calzaghe has made a career out of fighting crappy european fighters. Omar Shieka , that douche that does porn .....whats his name. Robin whatever. He fought one great who is quallified for social security and gets hurt and floored by him and your ready to lick his toes for it. That was the ugliest win ever. My favorite boxer does not try to anally rape a old man in the ring. He doesnt hit like a girl. And is all around tough. Not a welsh bullet dodger. Why didnt he call out Hopkins, Toney , Tarver , and Jones back in the day. He knew he would lose.
Do your fucking home work kid... the german's didn't want to risk going over the Channel and we fucked their shit up every time they tried to fly over our country. They basically didn't think that the reward outweighed the risk and gave up even thinking of invading us once we spanked their airforce. The germans used a tactic called blitzcrieg to invade a country... sap it from the air and storm it when it was weak... they couldn't weaken us.... read up on it
Now if you're talking about France that would be a different story... and I wouldnt put it past you seeing as you managed to confuse Hatton's fans (ie football fans) with Calzaghes fans... you even managed to confuse Mayweather with Hopkins because they happened on different fights...
you also can't remember the ref stepping in because Manfredo was clearly out of his depth and STOPPING the fight... not taking calzaghe the distance like you said.
Are you on something?
Reason being axis forces were so over helmed in Europe with U.S forces that is what allowed british forces to but them up. You needed us. Dont deny it. buzz bombs and bomb raids. We won this war as a team. With out each other it would have been terrible for Europe.
No... this was a few years before D Day... even before American force starting fighting in italy.
Stop pulling shit out of your arse. The French might now speak German if it wasn't for the allied forces reclaiming Europe, but you were talking about the invasion of Britian.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.
That's not the debate Ice ;)
You wanna take up the challenge?
Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche ;)
Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level
But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........
As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........
Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.
The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).
So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (;D), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?
;D
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caleoh12
Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.
Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.
That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.
Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...
Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ
Whether or not you know who these guys are -
they were all "world" champion.
Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.
Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche ;D
Uh they were all title holders. Not world champions. Far from it. Just look how they got there titles. Charles Brewer won his vacant IBF title by beating non-champion Gary Ballard (:lolhaha:). Robin Reid crushed The Italian Stallion Vincenzo Nardiello to become WBC champ (:lolhaha:). Richie Woodhall had to go 12 against the 10 loss having ancient Thulani Malinga to get his WBC title (:lolhaha:). Who took it from Robin Ried. (:lolhaha:) Byron Mitchell I do give credit to. He beat the underrated Frankie Liles to become champion. But by the time he fought Calzaghe he was coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and had gone life and death against Manny Siaca and Julio Cesar Green. I don't even acknowledge the WBO. There you go. Keep calling Brewer, Reid and Woodhall former world champions if you want. Anything to make Calzaghe look better.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
That's not the debate Ice ;)
You wanna take up the challenge?
Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche ;)
Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level
But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........
As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........
Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.
The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).
So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (;D), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?
;D
I never said they compare with Joe Calzaghe's opposition what i said is that Kelly Pavlik's wins over Jermain Taylor is probably better than any single win on Joe Calzaghe's resume.........
Its unfair to compare them at the moment because Kelly Pavlik is a new comer and has only recently won world title where as Joe Calzaghe has been champion for 11 years its just a silly comparison.......
But i will bet you this that when Kelly Pavlik finishes his career i think he will have better overall wins than Joe Calzaghe but we will have to wait and see if Kelly Pavlik can handle the big boys at the higher weight classes...........
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
southakron314
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
southakron314
No just one and that was a overhyped Jeff Lacy.
Didnt Manfredo take him the distance. Wow Manfredo another one of Calzaghe
worthy opponets.
Lacy was more feared than Pavlik before the Calzaghe fight.
You talk shit maybe i should go on about Pavlik getting dropped heavily by a Welterweight :rolleyes:
Pavlik and McCart. Funny .So you are saying that Bronco McKart hits harder than Edision Miranda. That was a slip dude.I seen the whole fight . All seven rounds of it. Your favorite fighter is a complete bitch inside the ring and out.His fans boo our nations anthem.If it was not for the USA you would not have a country. You would be speaking german right now. Show some class.Calzaghe hits like a 85 pound Korean gymnast. Calzaghe has made a career out of fighting crappy european fighters. Omar Shieka , that douche that does porn .....whats his name. Robin whatever. He fought one great who is quallified for social security and gets hurt and floored by him and your ready to lick his toes for it. That was the ugliest win ever. My favorite boxer does not try to anally rape a old man in the ring. He doesnt hit like a girl. And is all around tough. Not a welsh bullet dodger. Why didnt he call out Hopkins, Toney , Tarver , and Jones back in the day. He knew he would lose.
ummmm racist much dude?!? guess the English can fire back, well if we weren't assholes in the first place, the pilgrims wouldn't of gone to what is now known as the US, of course after slaughtering the indians that is ;D, you're an ass dude, world politics and race have nothing to with boxing, Calzaghe, although not one of my fav fighters, has shown time and time again he's legit, so put a cork in it and shut it, stop swinging on Pavliks nut sack cause i have a feeling his undefeated streak wont last long, he's more 1 dimensional than what most say Trinidad was, soon enough (maybe even against B-Hop) he's gonna lose, and it won't make him any less of a fighter
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Sorry I haven't replied in a while. I was at an open gym.
I'm totally agreeing with ssss. To compare Calzaghe and Pavlik's records as a whole would be somewhat foolish to do right now considering Pavlik's career is starting to take off while Calzaghe is towards the end. In terms of their best wins, I think Pavlik has the edge. Taylor and Miranda are much better wins than Bernard Hopkins (at this stage) and Kessler. If Pavlik beats Hopkins as well what would that do to the argument? Hopkins was easier to beat because he already lost to Calzaghe? I don't think so. I am just waiting to see what the reasoning will be if Pavlik wins. Joe is making big moves now, but Pavlik is making big moves as well MUCH EARLIER in his career.
This is my opinion and I respect the ones of those who back Calzaghe. But I just don't see much difference with their level of opponents. Just because someone holds a belt doesn't mean all that much. People know who the "real" champions are...
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caleoh12
Sorry I haven't replied in a while. I was at an open gym.
I'm totally agreeing with ssss. To compare Calzaghe and Pavlik's records as a whole would be somewhat foolish to do right now considering Pavlik's career is starting to take off while Calzaghe is towards the end. In terms of their best wins, I think Pavlik has the edge. Taylor and Miranda are much better wins than Bernard Hopkins (at this stage) and Kessler. If Pavlik beats Hopkins as well what would that do to the argument? Hopkins was easier to beat because he already lost to Calzaghe? I don't think so. I am just waiting to see what the reasoning will be if Pavlik wins. Joe is making big moves now, but Pavlik is making big moves as well MUCH EARLIER in his career.
This is my opinion and I respect the ones of those who back Calzaghe. But I just don't see much difference with their level of opponents. Just because someone holds a belt doesn't mean all that much. People know who the "real" champions are...
I agree with this for the most part. The only place I disagree is that I think Kessler is a much better scalp to have than Miranda. Taylor and Hopkins are pretty much a wash as far as I'm concerned. Their fights in no way proved who the better man was.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level
But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........
As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........
Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.
The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).
So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (;D), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?
;D
I never said they compare with Joe Calzaghe's opposition what i said is that Kelly Pavlik's wins over Jermain Taylor is probably better than any single win on Joe Calzaghe's resume.........
Its unfair to compare them at the moment because Kelly Pavlik is a new comer and has only recently won world title where as Joe Calzaghe has been champion for 11 years its just a silly comparison.......
But i will bet you this that when Kelly Pavlik finishes his career i think he will have better overall wins than Joe Calzaghe but we will have to wait and see if Kelly Pavlik can handle the big boys at the higher weight classes...........
That was the "debate" though. You must have not understood, not to worry ;D
I agree it's unfair/silly to compare them at this stage.
Pavlik will QUICKLY become a chump once he's been KO'd a few times.. which in all honesty, is far more likely than him becoming a long reigning champ - like Calzaghe ;)
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caleoh12
Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.
Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.
That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.
Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...
Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ
Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.
Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.
Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche ;D
All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.
How on earth were Reid and Mitchel past their best?
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level
But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........
As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........
Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.
The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).
So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (;D), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?
;D
I never said they compare with Joe Calzaghe's opposition what i said is that Kelly Pavlik's wins over Jermain Taylor is probably better than any single win on Joe Calzaghe's resume.........
Its unfair to compare them at the moment because Kelly Pavlik is a new comer and has only recently won world title where as Joe Calzaghe has been champion for 11 years its just a silly comparison.......
But i will bet you this that when Kelly Pavlik finishes his career i think he will have better overall wins than Joe Calzaghe but we will have to wait and see if Kelly Pavlik can handle the big boys at the higher weight classes...........
Taylor could have dropped decisions against Spinks and Ouma not forgetting the gift draw with Wright. Hopkins was made for Taylor he finally met a fighter even more negative and had to force the fight Hopkins is purely a backfoot fighter.
Style wise Taylor had his number. And im not sure getting punched all over the ring in the first fight and a razor thin dec in the rematch are as good as Calzaghes best wins.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caleoh12
Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.
Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.
The difference to me is that Calzaghe's been around a lot longer. Joe had chances to fight much better fighters in the 90's even early 2000s but he didn't. I know there may have been a case of Calzaghe wasn't a big name yet so why would Hopkins and Jones fight him. Still, he could've started something but it didn't happen. He's now fighting these guys after their time in the spotlight which is hard to give him full credit for.
Pavlik on the other hand is still 25, 26 years old and he's already trying to fight the best out there. He's not wasting any time and is accomodating his opponent's desired weight just to make the fight and not ducking anyone. This is why he's grabbing a lot of people's respect.
It would a great fight between the two of them. ABSOLUTELY a pick 'em! As someone said before, Pavlik has the tools to stop and hurt Joe but will Joe let him?
PLUS! Like I said before, Roy Jones isn't exactly a tune-up and Calzaghe WILL have his hands full.
"between Pavlik and Calzaghe`s list of opponents, I honestly dont see much of a difference"
You got mad rep for that! will people now see that Pavliks fans are up their with Mayweathers, Jones and Pacquaios for sheer loonacy?
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caleoh12
Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.
Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.
That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.
Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...
Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ
Whether or not you know who these guys are -
they were all "world" champion.
Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.
Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche ;D
Uh they were all title holders. Not world champions. Far from it. Just look how they got there titles. Charles Brewer won his vacant IBF title by beating non-champion Gary Ballard (:lolhaha:). Robin Reid crushed The Italian Stallion Vincenzo Nardiello to become WBC champ (:lolhaha:). Richie Woodhall had to go 12 against the 10 loss having ancient Thulani Malinga to get his WBC title (:lolhaha:). Who took it from Robin Ried. (:lolhaha:) Byron Mitchell I do give credit to. He beat the underrated Frankie Liles to become champion. But by the time he fought Calzaghe he was coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and had gone life and death against Manny Siaca and Julio Cesar Green. I don't even acknowledge the WBO. There you go. Keep calling Brewer, Reid and Woodhall former world champions if you want. Anything to make Calzaghe look better.
You clearly do not understand why I used quotation marks for the word - WORLD.
These guys were "world" (the quotation marks indicate i'm using the word ironically ;)) champion of those alphabet organisations. Fact.
Now, whether or not you believe them to be any good (obviously not), they all achieved a level of success that raises them ABOVE journeyman standard, right?
Which means the bulk of Calzaghe's opposition is far superior to Pavliks. ;)
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.
Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...
Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ
Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.
Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.
Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche ;D
All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.
How on earth were Reid and Mitchel past their best?
I think you misunderstood what i meant i didn't say they were past there prime but experts at that time did consider both fighters to be on the downslide of there career......
Because Robin Reid had looked rubbish losing to a 42 years old Thulani Malinga yes Robin Reid did go on to have some decent performances after the Joe Calzaghe fight but at the time he fought Joe Calzaghe he was considered on the downslide of his career and Byron Mitchell was also coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and the fact that he didn't fight again for another 4 years when he lost by TKO in an 8 round bout to Richard Hall proves my point.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).
So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (;D), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?
;D
I never said they compare with Joe Calzaghe's opposition what i said is that Kelly Pavlik's wins over Jermain Taylor is probably better than any single win on Joe Calzaghe's resume.........
Its unfair to compare them at the moment because Kelly Pavlik is a new comer and has only recently won world title where as Joe Calzaghe has been champion for 11 years its just a silly comparison.......
But i will bet you this that when Kelly Pavlik finishes his career i think he will have better overall wins than Joe Calzaghe but we will have to wait and see if Kelly Pavlik can handle the big boys at the higher weight classes...........
Taylor could have dropped decisions against Spinks and Ouma not forgetting the gift draw with Wright. Hopkins was made for Taylor he finally met a fighter even more negative and had to force the fight Hopkins is purely a backfoot fighter.
Style wise Taylor had his number. And im not sure getting punched all over the ring in the first fight and a razor thin dec in the rematch are as good as Calzaghes best wins.
Could have dropped a decision to Kassim Ouma you are kidding right ? Jermain Taylor didn't look impressive but he clearly won the fight end of and no way was that fight controversial.........
All Cory Spinks did was run all night and he makes pretty much everyone look bad and as for Winky Wright is there any shame in having a draw against Winky Wright ?
Considering Bernard Hopkins looked even worse against a flabby Winky Wright and had to grab and cheat his way to a controversial decision over a flabby Winky Wright who was moving up 2 weight classes.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.
How on earth were Reid and Mitchel past their best?
I think you misunderstood what i meant i didn't say they were past there prime but experts at that time did consider both fighters to be on the downslide of there career......
Because Robin Reid had looked rubbish losing to a 42 years old Thulani Malinga yes Robin Reid did go on to have some decent performances after the Joe Calzaghe fight but at the time he fought Joe Calzaghe he was considered on the downslide of his career and Byron Mitchell was also coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and the fact that he didn't fight again for another 4 years when he lost by TKO in an 8 round bout to Richard Hall proves my point.
Mitchel was coming off his career best display by beating Sven Ottke.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.
Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...
Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ
Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.
Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.
Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche ;D
Uh they were all title holders. Not world champions. Far from it. Just look how they got there titles. Charles Brewer won his vacant IBF title by beating non-champion Gary Ballard (:lolhaha:). Robin Reid crushed The Italian Stallion Vincenzo Nardiello to become WBC champ (:lolhaha:). Richie Woodhall had to go 12 against the 10 loss having ancient Thulani Malinga to get his WBC title (:lolhaha:). Who took it from Robin Ried. (:lolhaha:) Byron Mitchell I do give credit to. He beat the underrated Frankie Liles to become champion. But by the time he fought Calzaghe he was coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and had gone life and death against Manny Siaca and Julio Cesar Green. I don't even acknowledge the WBO. There you go. Keep calling Brewer, Reid and Woodhall former world champions if you want. Anything to make Calzaghe look better.
You clearly do not understand why I used quotation marks for the word - WORLD.
These guys were "world" (the quotation marks indicate i'm using the word ironically ;)) champion of those alphabet organisations. Fact.
Now, whether or not you believe them to be any good (obviously not),
they all achieved a level of success that raises them ABOVE journeyman standard, right?
Which means the bulk of Calzaghe's opposition is far superior to Pavliks. ;)
Mitchell and maybe, maybe Reid yeah. But Brewer and Woodhall I consider journeymen.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Uh they were all title holders. Not world champions. Far from it. Just look how they got there titles. Charles Brewer won his vacant IBF title by beating non-champion Gary Ballard (:lolhaha:). Robin Reid crushed The Italian Stallion Vincenzo Nardiello to become WBC champ (:lolhaha:). Richie Woodhall had to go 12 against the 10 loss having ancient Thulani Malinga to get his WBC title (:lolhaha:). Who took it from Robin Ried. (:lolhaha:) Byron Mitchell I do give credit to. He beat the underrated Frankie Liles to become champion. But by the time he fought Calzaghe he was coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and had gone life and death against Manny Siaca and Julio Cesar Green. I don't even acknowledge the WBO. There you go. Keep calling Brewer, Reid and Woodhall former world champions if you want. Anything to make Calzaghe look better.
You clearly do not understand why I used quotation marks for the word - WORLD.
These guys were "world" (the quotation marks indicate i'm using the word ironically ;)) champion of those alphabet organisations. Fact.
Now, whether or not you believe them to be any good (obviously not),
they all achieved a level of success that raises them ABOVE journeyman standard, right?
Which means the bulk of Calzaghe's opposition is far superior to Pavliks. ;)
Mitchell and maybe, maybe Reid yeah. But Brewer and Woodhall I consider journeymen.
Brewer and Woodhall journeymen?
Yer ok.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Demise is actually a secret Calzaghe fan. He's only kidding when he criticises him, don't take it seriously. :)
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Calzaghe was dropped by a decent shot by B-Hop.If it were Pavlik who threw that Calzaghe's jaw would have been broken. I like Calzaghe but I just don't think he could Pavlik same as B-Hop who will be going to the canvas.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Uh they were all title holders. Not world champions. Far from it. Just look how they got there titles. Charles Brewer won his vacant IBF title by beating non-champion Gary Ballard (:lolhaha:). Robin Reid crushed The Italian Stallion Vincenzo Nardiello to become WBC champ (:lolhaha:). Richie Woodhall had to go 12 against the 10 loss having ancient Thulani Malinga to get his WBC title (:lolhaha:). Who took it from Robin Ried. (:lolhaha:) Byron Mitchell I do give credit to. He beat the underrated Frankie Liles to become champion. But by the time he fought Calzaghe he was coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and had gone life and death against Manny Siaca and Julio Cesar Green. I don't even acknowledge the WBO. There you go. Keep calling Brewer, Reid and Woodhall former world champions if you want. Anything to make Calzaghe look better.
You clearly do not understand why I used quotation marks for the word - WORLD.
These guys were "world" (the quotation marks indicate i'm using the word ironically ;)) champion of those alphabet organisations. Fact.
Now, whether or not you believe them to be any good (obviously not),
they all achieved a level of success that raises them ABOVE journeyman standard, right?
Which means the bulk of Calzaghe's opposition is far superior to Pavliks. ;)
Mitchell and maybe, maybe Reid yeah. But Brewer and Woodhall I consider journeymen.
:lol:
That genuinely made me laugh.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
You clearly do not understand why I used quotation marks for the word - WORLD.
These guys were "world" (the quotation marks indicate i'm using the word ironically ;)) champion of those alphabet organisations. Fact.
Now, whether or not you believe them to be any good (obviously not), they all achieved a level of success that raises them ABOVE journeyman standard, right?
Which means the bulk of Calzaghe's opposition is far superior to Pavliks. ;)
Mitchell and maybe, maybe Reid yeah. But Brewer and Woodhall I consider journeymen.
:lol:
That genuinely made me laugh.
It would help if you actually knew Brewers career. Watch some of his fights. And you'll see he's not the "World Champion" :lolhaha: you think he was
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Mitchell and maybe, maybe Reid yeah. But Brewer and Woodhall I consider journeymen.
:lol:
That genuinely made me laugh.
It would help if you actually knew Brewers career. Watch some of his fights. And you'll see he's not the "World Champion" :lolhaha: you think he was
I know enough about Brewers career.
He was the IBF "world" supermiddleweight champion. Is that NOT a FACT? ;)
I've NEVER once stated whether I believe he was any good or not. ;)
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
:lol:
That genuinely made me laugh.
It would help if you actually knew Brewers career. Watch some of his fights. And you'll see he's not the "World Champion" :lolhaha: you think he was
I know enough about Brewers career.
He was the IBF "world" supermiddleweight champion. Is that NOT a FACT? ;)
I've NEVER once stated whether I believe he was any good or not. ;)
Good to see your easily brain washed by the organizations. Seriously answered me this, how can one be called a "World Champion" if he never beat another world champion for the belt? Is it because they tell you he's a world champion? Is that it? So I guess if they told you he was a future Hall of Famer would you consider him a future Hall of Famer as well?
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
It would help if you actually knew Brewers career. Watch some of his fights. And you'll see he's not the "World Champion" :lolhaha: you think he was
I know enough about Brewers career.
He was the IBF "world" supermiddleweight champion. Is that NOT a FACT? ;)
I've NEVER once stated whether I believe he was any good or not. ;)
Good to see your easily brain washed by the organizations. Seriously answered me this, how can one be called a "World Champion" if he never beat another world champion for the belt? Is it because they tell you he's a world champion? Is that it? So I guess if they told you he was a future Hall of Famer would you consider him a future Hall of Famer as well?
Hey didn't you understand my other post? Thought I made it clear.
I personally only EVER consider one champion per divison. Alphabet titles, whether it's the WBC, WBA, WBO or IBF don't mean shit. It's the fighter that makes the belt.
I'm merely stating a FACT that Charles Brewer was the IBF "world" Champion. That is a Fact. ;)
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
I know enough about Brewers career.
He was the IBF "world" supermiddleweight champion. Is that NOT a FACT? ;)
I've NEVER once stated whether I believe he was any good or not. ;)
Good to see your easily brain washed by the organizations. Seriously answered me this, how can one be called a "World Champion" if he never beat another world champion for the belt? Is it because they tell you he's a world champion? Is that it? So I guess if they told you he was a future Hall of Famer would you consider him a future Hall of Famer as well?
Hey didn't you understand my other post? Thought I made it clear.
I personally only EVER consider one champion per divison. Alphabet titles, whether it's the WBC, WBA, WBO or IBF don't mean shit. It's the fighter that makes the belt.
I'm merely stating a FACT that Charles Brewer was the IBF "world" Champion. That is a Fact. ;)
So if the IBF decided to give Audley Harrison there title would you consider Harrison a IBF World Heavyweight champion? Despite the fact that he never beat a champion for it?
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Good to see your easily brain washed by the organizations. Seriously answered me this, how can one be called a "World Champion" if he never beat another world champion for the belt? Is it because they tell you he's a world champion? Is that it? So I guess if they told you he was a future Hall of Famer would you consider him a future Hall of Famer as well?
Hey didn't you understand my other post? Thought I made it clear.
I personally only EVER consider one champion per divison. Alphabet titles, whether it's the WBC, WBA, WBO or IBF don't mean shit. It's the fighter that makes the belt.
I'm merely stating a FACT that Charles Brewer was the IBF "world" Champion. That is a Fact. ;)
So if the IBF decided to give Audley Harrison there title would you consider Harrison a IBF World Heavyweight champion? Despite the fact that he never beat a champion for it?
If the IBF made Harrison their "world" champion he would be their "world" champion.
Having to beat their IBF champion is irrelevant. I wouldn't class Audley as the real WORLD champion unless he beat the guy considered as the real WORLD champion. ;)
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Fightfan
Calzaghe was dropped by a decent shot by B-Hop.If it were Pavlik who threw that Calzaghe's jaw would have been broken. I like Calzaghe but I just don't think he could Pavlik same as B-Hop who will be going to the canvas.
Calzaghe was off balance.
And Pavlik isnt a single shot KO artist.
Kessler hit Calzaghe with bombs and he walked through them and im willing bet bet a genuine powerful 168lbr in Kessler hits harder that a powerfil 160lbr.
Taylor/Pavlik II showed that unless Pavlik has every physical advantage over his opponent he struggles.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Hey didn't you understand my other post? Thought I made it clear.
I personally only EVER consider one champion per divison. Alphabet titles, whether it's the WBC, WBA, WBO or IBF don't mean shit. It's the fighter that makes the belt.
I'm merely stating a FACT that Charles Brewer was the IBF "world" Champion. That is a Fact. ;)
So if the IBF decided to give Audley Harrison there title would you consider Harrison a IBF World Heavyweight champion? Despite the fact that he never beat a champion for it?
If the IBF made Harrison their "world" champion he would be their "world" champion.
Having to beat their IBF champion is irrelevant. I wouldn't class Audley as the real WORLD champion unless he beat the guy considered as the real WORLD champion. ;)
Anyone that knows boxing (not a hater) knows Brewer was no journeyman.
He beat Ottke twice and knocked out Herol Graham.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Charles Brewer was an exciting fighter but he was just a goodish fighter at best and he had a suspect chin remember Herol Graham who is feather fisted and was about 8 years past his prime had Charles Brewer on the canvas twice........
And the fact that Charles Brewer has stated that he don't actually like boxing and only thinks of it as a business makes me question his heart in boxing i still can't believe how he couldn't finish a past his prime Antwun Echols when he had him down 3 times.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Hey didn't you understand my other post? Thought I made it clear.
I personally only EVER consider one champion per divison. Alphabet titles, whether it's the WBC, WBA, WBO or IBF don't mean shit. It's the fighter that makes the belt.
I'm merely stating a FACT that Charles Brewer was the IBF "world" Champion. That is a Fact. ;)
So if the IBF decided to give Audley Harrison there title would you consider Harrison a IBF World Heavyweight champion? Despite the fact that he never beat a champion for it?
If the IBF made Harrison their "world" champion he would be their "world" champion.
Having to beat their IBF champion is irrelevant. I wouldn't class Audley as the real WORLD champion unless he beat the guy considered as the real WORLD champion. ;)
And people wonder why the organizations will never go away. No need when you can brain wash people so easily. Did you consider Brewer the real world champion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
So if the IBF decided to give Audley Harrison there title would you consider Harrison a IBF World Heavyweight champion? Despite the fact that he never beat a champion for it?
If the IBF made Harrison their "world" champion he would be their "world" champion.
Having to beat their IBF champion is irrelevant. I wouldn't class Audley as the real WORLD champion unless he beat the guy considered as the real WORLD champion. ;)
Anyone that knows boxing (not a hater) knows Brewer was no journeyman.
He beat Ottke twice and knocked out Herol Graham.
That must be why Brewer acknowledge that he lost the rematch to Ottke. huh? And anybody that knows Boxing knows that the Graham, Brewer beat was 39 years old and not the fighter he once was. In fact, if I remember correctly i think the Brewer fight was his last. He was an old fighter.
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ssss
Charles Brewer was an exciting fighter but he was just a goodish fighter at best and he had a suspect chin remember Herol Graham who is feather fisted and was about 8 years past his prime had Charles Brewer on the canvas twice........
And the fact that Charles Brewer has stated that he don't actually like boxing and only thinks of it as a business makes me question his heart in boxing i still can't believe how he couldn't finish a past his prime Antwun Echols when he had him down 3 times.
Herol Graham feather fisted?
WTF, thats the most stupid statement today, congratulations!
Mr featherfisted had McCallum on queer street and had Jackson saying "I aine never been hurt like that every punch felt like he was hitting me with a brick, i had to catch him i knew i would have lost"
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Re: Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
So if the IBF decided to give Audley Harrison there title would you consider Harrison a IBF World Heavyweight champion? Despite the fact that he never beat a champion for it?
If the IBF made Harrison their "world" champion he would be their "world" champion.
Having to beat their IBF champion is irrelevant. I wouldn't class Audley as the real WORLD champion unless he beat the guy considered as the real WORLD champion. ;)
And people wonder why the organizations will never go away. No need when you can brain wash people so easily. Did you consider Brewer the real world champion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
If the IBF made Harrison their "world" champion he would be their "world" champion.
Having to beat their IBF champion is irrelevant. I wouldn't class Audley as the real WORLD champion unless he beat the guy considered as the real WORLD champion. ;)
Anyone that knows boxing (not a hater) knows Brewer was no journeyman.
He beat Ottke twice and knocked out Herol Graham.
That must be why Brewer acknowledge that he lost the rematch to Ottke. huh? And anybody that knows Boxing knows that the Graham, Brewer beat was 39 years old and not the fighter he once was. In fact, if I remember correctly i think the Brewer fight was his last. He was an old fighter.
You clearly have not seen the Ottke fights and Graham was 37.
